The Japanese language is a sea and you need to build a boat before setting out

This article was prompted by a recent conversation between myself and Brokenvai on Twitter.

Brokenvai was asking for help on Twitter. Does this sound familiar to you? It did to me:

Trying to learn Japanese, but I'm going in a million different directions... I think I know where I should go... But I also feel like I have no idea where I should go... I'm a beginner... but I'm in love with the Japanese language... So, if there's anybody out there listening right now... It'd be great to know where I should go... I feel like my inspiration to learn... is starting to fall apart.

Brokenvai is currently learning Japanese at High School where the tutor is mainly teaching polite form Japanese. A lot of websites, this one included often suggest not to start with or worry too much about polite form Japanese. So Brokenvai is being pulled in two directions which can only be confusing and frustrating.

My opinion is that you should learn Japanese any way you can. Like a child would, just aim to make sense in Japanese first, then worry later about being polite. If you know you're going into a situation where polite form is needed, such as an interview or meeting then by all means do a bit of research on the polite form, but it's better to be understood first in my opinion. Even in the most polite form situation if you use casual form you will most likely be forgiven because it's not your native language.

When I first met my fiancee's parents I was worried about being polite in Japanese. What if I slip up and say ありがとう (Arigato) instead of ありがとうございます (Arigato gozaimasu)? Seems silly now, but I didn't want to offend them! Well I soon learned, at least in their case, it wasn't a big deal. They understand I'm a newbie to Japanese and will make mistakes. Some people even find it funny or cute. Just like how we find strange uses of English amusing.

So my suggestion to Brokenvai was to stick to what the tutor is teaching because the tutor will (hopefully) have a lesson plan and the structured learning will be helpful. However, alongside that I suggested spending some personal time on "Remembering the Kanji" (I forgot to mention smart.fm which is also good) and getting an overall view of what's involved in learning the Japanese language.

It's fine to learn polite form from a tutor, but it's very beneficial to get a complete idea of what's involved in learning the language yourself. The best way to do this is to read everything you can about the language. I felt completely overwhelmed with information at first. I read about grammar and didn't really understand it but somewhere down the line things started to come together and I finally felt on top. Instead of feeling like I was drowning in information I could look out across the sea of Japanese language and say "Right, I'm sailing in THAT direction, yaar!".

Do you have any advice to share with Brokenvai?

AlexandreC said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:28 JST:

I can think of 2 general points to mention that people usually forget:

1) know your own language before you learn another one -- spend some time thinking and understanding how your own language works; you'll be in a much better position to understand how the other language differs. How can you learn the passive or the past tense if you never thought about how they are expressed in your language? This will also allow you to understand what you need daily in your language, and look for that in the other language.

2) focus on phrases, not words -- just like animals interact with the world they live in, words do not exist alone; they live in phrases and in sentences and you need that environment to understand how they are used. Learn phrases and sentences, and put them in your mental toolbox as references. If you want to learn lists of vocab, fine, but you won't really know them until you know how to use them in context.

GoddessCarlie said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:32 JST:

With regards to learning polite vs casual speech, I think start of learning polite but don't worry about it so much. Eventually you will have to be exposed to casual speech to create longer sentences within polite speech, so it really doesn't matter. And you will eventually learn what context to use what kind of speech no matter what you learn first.

I would say go with what the tutor, but ask questions, review what you learn in different places, and eventually all the pieces of the puzzle will come together.

GoddessCarlie said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:34 JST:

Even if you don't know your own language inside out like that, learning a new language will make you realise these things.

AlexandreC said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:40 JST:

Frankly, polite Japanese is a little overrated. So much emphasis is placed on it at the beginning mainly for traditional reasons; it was just always taught that way.

Before I went for a trip in Japan, I made sure I knew both. However, to my surprise, other than in stores and restaurants, I ended up using informal with everyone (as per their request).

Chris Gaunt said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:42 JST:

I've had the same experience. Once I started learning Japanese I learned much more about my own language.

Chris Gaunt said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:52 JST:

That's exactly what's happened since I arrived here in Japan. Other than in shops and initially with the in-laws I haven't used much polite Japanese.

Lesson material gets old quickly. Times change, stances of what is considered rude in society change, and most material doesn't keep up with these changes.

I still consider myself a beginner and at this stage what has helped me the most is to get a solid understanding of all aspects of the language allowing me to decide how and what I learn and in what order.

harrow said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:54 JST:

My advice: remember why you fell in love with Japanese in the first place -- anime? wanted to read Japanese manga? loved watching J-Drama or listening to J-Pop? and stay connected to that so that your motivation stays strong and your enjoyment quotient high.

AlexandreC said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:57 JST:

I am convinced you would have learned faster had you already known about your own language, rather than the other way around. The ability to learn to speak a language quickly depends partly on being able to feel, reasonably, what is possible and what isn't in that language or in languages in general. I think that is also why people who learned a language before will learn another faster than those who learned several languages growing up.

Chris Gaunt said on Thu 2009/03/26 14:57 JST:

Great points here. I kind of stumbled across finding out how my own language works. I was never really interested in the finer points of English but after studying Japanese I am starting to understand languages as a whole.

shibuya246 said on Thu 2009/03/26 15:49 JST:

When you are learning you often don't realise you are making progress because the playing field seems to be getting bigger and bigger everyday. Don't worry. As long as you keep looking at new things and don't get stuck spending too much time on bits of grammar you can't understand, you will keep moving forwards. If you start to lose confidence, compare how much you can now say or understand in Japanese compared to how much you can say in a language you don't know, like say Chinese or Thai or something. You will soon realise you have learned more Japanese than you thought.

I find buying a couple of language textbooks at the same time and reading them randomly or from back to front is helpful. If you read from start to finish at some time you will hit the wall of difficulty where you feel you should give up. If you start somewhere towards the back and work forwards it gets easier. Children don't learn in a linear line. They learn randomly. Play to your strengths and the gap where your weaknesses exist will fill in later.

Try to focus on experiencing things rather than learning. I would stress to students that it is better to forget something you have learned and come back and find it again then to remember it perfectly the first time. If you think about walking down a street for the first time. The more you walk down that street the less likely you are to forget how to get to the destination and then you find shortcuts and streets off the main street and shops and all sorts of things from it. Walking down that street one time only is not the same.

Be prepared to forget stuff, put it aside for a while and come back and find it again later. Treat the learning as an act of discovery not rote learning!

I still can't understand my own language properly and don't know how to explain grammar points, but it didn't stop me from learning Japanese. I find studying boring, but learning something is great!

Daniel said on Thu 2009/03/26 16:28 JST:

I wonder if we study Japanese the way we do because that's how we studied French, German, Spanish, Latin, etc in school. Studying was always tied to reading and writing, because let's face it, it's much easier for a teacher to grade you by reading your answers than it is for all testing to be conversational.

The catch, of course, when you move to Japanese is that reading and writing is INSANELY difficult to master. The barrier in the other languages that I mentioned is relatively low and I think actually helps drill grammar. Grammar at the beginner level in Japanese is extremely simple compared to the French or German, for example. Japanese kids take something like 6 years to learn the first 1000 kanji -- that corresponds to what, 12 years speaking the language. Yet students of Japanese try to learn 2000 kanji, in what? 6 months/12 months? Learning them before they can actually speak the language?

This is my never ending battle with Japanese. I keep running up against this "why am I wasting time learning kanji BEFORE I can converse"? I think I've expressed this to you before, Chris -- this struggle that I deal with.

That said, I'm loving smartfm... though I'm not too concerned whether I learn any kanji in the process.

Chris Gaunt said on Fri 2009/03/27 02:44 JST:

Great advice :) I've just recently had thoughts I wasn't learning quickly enough but going back through this blog and remembering when I first visited Japan I realize I have come pretty far.

Chris Gaunt said on Fri 2009/03/27 02:52 JST:

So very true. It took me a while to realize I was pushing myself to reach insane goals, but it was all part of learning what's involved in mastering the Japanese language. I want to learn it now, but it's not that simple, it will take a lot of time.

One of the first things I've learned so far is patience ^^

Kimberly Fraser said on Fri 2009/03/27 14:59 JST:

In my opinion, you need to study the basics, which means studying the polite form. You need to know the grammar rules in order to bend them first. Casual form gets introduced pretty quickly in a lot of courses so, not to worry you'll get there.

I agree with what Harrow said. You need to remember why you want to learn this language in the first place. This is a long journey, and thinking about how overwhelming it is will just discourage you further.

Stick to a pace that is right for you, read lots of different material so you can find a method that works with your style. Everyone is different and people pick things up faster when they do it in a way that is fun and less a chore.